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Parrothead

Anyone have any experience with methane or bio-gas production?

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Bill H

Nope, never raised anything in Cambodia, but I do have a history with pigs.  Disease is the #1 concern with any pig operation because it can wipe you out in days.  A sick human can infect your herd in the blink of an eye, which is why pig guys who know pigs won't let anyone but himself and his workers near them.  It's a very hard business to make a buck in, I'll tell you.  I would imagine it would be doubly hard here due to having to import so many necessary things and feed components.  It's not like cattle, you can't throw some banana leaves at them and expect them to thrive.

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Parrothead

So what is the answer? Do it or not?

 

How could I possibly know this early, Andy? I started this thread three days ago. As you have seen, I do months of research prior to starting something.

 

 

The difficulties and costs to the overall outcome will be too large.

 

How could you possibly know this, unless you have tried this IN CAMBODIA, yourself? Raising pigs in one country will be somewhat different in another. 

 

 

You need the land space for the animals firstly. And the housing with your venture.

Then you will need the staff. Shoveling shit every day can't be fun.

2 hectares isn't enough? Then, there will never be enough. That is what I have at my disposal - ~ 5 acres of land.

 

Finding employees here isn't an issue. I doubt I will find another one like Tha. But, he has proven to be worth 5 men, over the time he has been working for us. If I find another man anywhere near what Tha is worth, I will have it made. Worst case, we have some nephews who I am sure wouldn't mind earning some extra money shoveling shit. At the moment, they shovel cow shit - for no pay. I don't think it will be difficult to convince them.

 

Not to mention, I pay Tha double a laborer's wage now. I wouldn't have a problem paying them similarly. 

 

 

You first would need the experience in pig keeping.

Then you are going to learn how to produce a highly flammable substance from Youtube? Without any mistakes. Will you use un-experienced staff, risking life and limb.

I would look more closely to the related complications.

 

Of course I need to learn about pig keeping. 

 

Do you really think I am naive enough to believe all the videos I view? Or, to use YouTube videos solely for my research? Have you NOT read any of the resource posts I have made here? I secure information from many sources, not only videos. I visit online forums, blogs, commercial and personal websites. I do make all information I find available to anyone who wants what I have researched, and learned.

 

I am also cautious enough to use appropriate care and exercise safety when dealing with something that could kill me, or do harm to others around me. 

 

Sometimes, it make take me a while to get sorted. And, I have run into project delays - considering I am in SEA, this is to be expected. But, I have completed, to date, every project I have begun in Cambodia.

 

 

Paul, you misread my post.  I didn't say you needed 50 pigs; I said we had 50-100 feeder pigs, and they produced more poop than we needed.  Feeder pigs are just babies (small) so 20 breeding pigs (sows and a boar or two) sounds about right.  I'm not sure how cost effective it would be though because the pig feed I've seen in the feed stores is very expensive.  Commercial hog operations work on very tight margins and have to have economies of scale to make even a small profit.  I think you should research the feed situation before you go hog wild here (pun intended).  

 

Here is a factoid to help you.  It takes about 3.2 pounds of feed for every pound of a pig you raise.  This does not include feed for breeding stock, just growing stock.  So if you want to grow 150 pounds of pig you need 150 * 3.2 = 480 pounds of pig feed.  How much will that cost you?  See what I mean?  There are other factors to consider as well, not the least of which is death loss.  Pigs die, entire herds can be wiped out by disease very quickly.  Pigs are susceptible to many human illnesses.  This is why most commercial pig operations will not allow visitors near their herds.

 

We made our own feed.  That was possible because we had a grinder/mixer to do it and a ready source of corn and soybean meal the main components of the feed, but far from all the components, you need to make it.

You can also run human waste through a methane generator you know.  How much poop do you put out a day?  LOL

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. In my defense, I did ask if you recalled how many pigs it took to create enough gas to run a generator. That, I am in complete darkness about. But, I will be learning quick, now! Either way, I'm glad we are on the same page, now. 

 

Do not, I also still have access to a machine that is still available for sale. It makes feed for the pigs. That's what the current owner did with it, anyway, processing corn and rice. We may go ahead and buy it from them, now that I think we may have a genuine use for it. 

 

I have already thought about growing feed for pigs, as well. Chan's sister has vacant land on which we could raise feed solely for pigs. We could pay her to grow corn and rice to process for them. 

 

I should have gone into a bit more detail when I made my first post. Having a clean place for them, growing and processing the feed for them, feeding them said feed, keeping them clean and maintained, etc., isn't a worry for me. All of that we have been discussing, off and on, for some time. 

 

I am much more concerned about making and processing the gas, storage and use of the gas, and being safe around the gas. All of that is my primary concern, and has been since the start of this thread. 

 

You have obviously had the pig keeping experience like myself Bill H.

Have you had the experience also in Cambodia?

Paul would need to learn! Having no knowledge of pig farming. He in the past had told me about the neighbouring farm losing there entire stock. I looked up on the internet, and contacted some pig breeders I know here! Battambang and siem reap provenance's lost stock to disease.

 

Again, of course I need to learn. Hence the reason for my Original Post, Andy.

 

Bill H has not lived here before. His reasons for joining this forum and seeking information from those of us who do live here. He stated that early on, in one of his threads.

 

Regarding what I told you - it was an entire flock of chickens they lost, near the farm. Use the search feature on this forum to find the thread. We lost ours as well, the first time we attempted to start raising chickens. We then inoculated them and lost no more, even when the neighbors did the second year of a Newcastle epidemic. The only reason we lost some the first time, we because we let them free range. I have not let our chickens free range in years. We also don't allow other owners' chickens to come on our property, even though ours are inoculated. (Incidentally, in another generation or two, ours should start showing signs of natural immunity to Newcastle.)

 

 

I seems to me the first thing you need to learn is pig farming! There are a few members on this site who may help you in this direction. I also remember giving you a contact in Cambodia before to help you in this field. It is one thing running an aquaponics system successfully. But pig farming and production of fuel I would think needs careful consideration.

 

Doesn't take anything but some time and intelligence, to learn pig farming. For the record, Chan and her family have raised pigs in the past. So, it isn't as though I am going into this thing blind.

 

Not unlike when I began raising cows. We are expecting another calf fairly soon, actually. Gestation period for cows here is about nine months, close to humans. In two years, each new calf is ready to mate. Between buying and raising them, we should have a herd of at least 20 to 25 cows, in another two years. Chan is starting to build a larger barn at the end of this month, or the beginning of October, for the cows.

 

Not unlike when I began raising chickens. I had never raised chickens before in my life. I built a flock from nothing to hundreds, in a few months; to thousands within one year.

Edited by Paul

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Parrothead
It's a very hard business to make a buck in, I'll tell you.  I would imagine it would be doubly hard here due to having to import so many necessary things and feed components.

 

Our primary reason for raising pigs, is to fill our own freezer. If we can raise more to sell, and get a secondary benefit from it, I would DEFINITELY* consider doing that - processing pig shit for gas to power a generator. This would kill a significant amount of overhead AND stop me from having to pour so much money into solar arrays and battery systems. 

 

However, if it doesn't work, we haven't really lost anything but some time learning, and a lot of pig shit we may not know what to do with, otherwise. :D

Edited by Paul

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Parrothead
He in the past had told me about the neighbouring farm losing there entire stock.

 

I found the specific post: CLICK HERE

 

It was a friend of hers who lost pigs. The only animals lost near our farm, was chickens. But, this was no where near where her farm is.

Edited by Paul

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Bill H

Paul, get a book on mixing pig rations, it's a lot more complicated than mixing some yellow corn and rice together.  You need to add a vitamin and mineral pack that is balanced to the other ingredients, a protein source because neither rice nor corn has enough protein, and maybe some antibiotics and trace minerals.  Oh, you usually throw in some fat.  Not a simple process at all.  There are commercial programs that will give you the exact recipe after you enter the local price of all your ingredients.

 

Does your grinder mixer look like this?  You will need a tractor with PTO and more than 100hp to run this puppy.

 

3813721138.jpeg

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andy

Like I have said LPG is so cheap here. To fill the freezer full of pork! Come on you only need like many Khmers a few free range pigs. Like many self-sufficiency.

You had never mentioned the thousand chickens before! You by now must have a good market. So you will not have the problem you talk about selling your vegetables. With your knowledge of the Khmer market! May you be able to assist me and members in the future?

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Parrothead

Like I have said LPG is so cheap here.

You know, I guess I could very well end up doing that, using LPG to run a petrol generator. But, I won't know until I research it.

 

 

To fill the freezer full of pork! Come on you only need like many Khmers a few free range pigs. Like many self-sufficiency.

You had never mentioned the thousand chickens before! You by now must have a good market.

 

You don't listen, Andy.

 

I told you, as I have others, I stopped supporting the chickens and turned them over to the family. They did what most Khmers would do, and stopped putting earnings back into the business. They ultimately ran the flock down. These were, primarily, Silkies. Sometime back we bought her mother some more birds. They were just to keep her busy. We talked about and will not build the flock up, buy pigs, goats, or anything else, prior to us living on site.

 

 

So you will not have the problem you talk about selling your vegetables. With your knowledge of the Khmer market! May you be able to assist me and members in the future?

 

Again, regarding aquaponics, this system is for learning, just as I want to learn about bio-gas production.

 

I don't think anyone, aside from Richard, can assist you with anything. It seems you are more focused on Thailand.

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andy

To be fair Paul, Richard may be of big help to you! Is girls sister owns and operates a very successful pig farm here in Cambodia. And what I understand all is automated! So no shoveling shit for her.

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andy

Paul your title reads - Anyone have any experience?

 

Yes to answer your post - with the pig farming and keeping. I have many years of feeding and taking care of the foresaid animals. 2500 sty kept pigs, and 1500 free-range we kept in the wooded area.

With my own business in the oil industry for the last 30 year's. Subcontracting to most of the major petroleum industries. Petroleum and LPG.

 

Yes I agree Cambodia is not the west! Especially regarding safety. But without the knowledge in this field, it could turn out to be a very difficult and dangerous venture.

 

I would advise you to use people who have experience in this type of project. The people will be knowledgeable and of high skills and education. Something I think you could not afford. This is a little different from just paying for labour.

 

Don't get me wrong! I think it is a worthwhile project. But LPG is probably better for you.

 

If you do pursue in the making of a highly unstable gas production has by the means of an hobby to go wrong! I would be very disheartened to read the following - on the website or the Phnom Penh Post.

 

Mistakes I have made in the build.

 

Large explosion in the countryside of Battambang provenance has left a large creator. Proprietor now is thinking of opening a water leisure park.

 

But 200mtrs from the blast site, he still has a fridge full of pork

 

post-1230-0-35557900-1473839843_thumb.jpg

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Parrothead

Don't get me wrong! I think it is a worthwhile project. But LPG is probably better for you.

 

Thank you. Duly noted. Yes, I could go with LPG. I may find, through the process of researching this, that it is simply more cost effective to do so. Who knows? That's why I started by posting this thread, to find out.

 

And again, let me reiterate. I have not stated that I will do anything in particular, yet. I have not stated that I will NOT do anything in particular, yet. I am doing the exact same thing I do every time I am interested in a possible project, Andy. R E S E A R C H, and lots of it. 

 

 

I would advise you to use people who have experience in this type of project. The people will be knowledgeable and of high skills and education. Something I think you could not afford. This is a little different from just paying for labour.

 

Let me ask you two questions, Andy.

 

1. Do you really think I am so stupid - or ignorant, that I would not learn everything I need to, prior to undertaking a project like this? Take a look at what I have done, everything documented on this forum, over time. I do months of research and countless hours of reading, prior to taking my first step. Hell, look at the resources I post, as I find them, in the respective projects "Resources" threads.

 

2. Do you realize how difficult it would be, to locate anyone qualified to advise me, in this country? Let me give you two examples of people here, both who SHOULD know their respective businesses - but don't.

 

A. I just had the parts for a sump cut for me - glass. (I turned my 69 liters aquarium into a sump for the 132 liters tank.) The guy at the aquarium shop had NO idea, zero, as to what a sump even was, for a fish tank. I had tried, previously, to explain to him through Chan. I even showed him, by taking the tank to his shop. He just scratched his head. 

 

B. About two or three years ago, when I set up my solar array at my home, the solar INSTALLER, who had installed - I'm sure, hundreds of systems, would not connect the panels unless I disconnected the controller first.

 

Want to know why?

 

Because he had only installed PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) controllers. The voltage of the array has got to match the battery bank voltage, when using a PWM controller. 12vdc / 12vdc, 24vdc / 24vdc, etc. My controller was an MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) controller. A completely different animal. An MPPT controller will allow a higher voltage solar array charge a lower voltage battery bank. He thought I was going to blow something up, when the solar array was connected to the controller and then to the batteries. The solar array was 24vdc; the batteries were 12vdc. After it was completed, I reconnected the controller and showed him by measuring the voltage. It was like he had seen a ghost. 

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